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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:12 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:39 pm
Posts: 82
Location: United States
Just got an education on bandsaws.

Spent the good part of an afternoon studying the Laguna 16HD and a
brand-new version of the Laguna LT20 that is a substantially beefed up
(made in Bulgaria) version of their Italian LT20. I couldn't compare it
directly with the Italian LT20, but construction differences between the
Bulgarian LT20 and the Italian HD16 were clear.

First, the table on the Bulgarian machine is near 50% thicker cast iron
than that on the HD16. Plus, it has a beefy, double cast iron trunnions,
compared to a much lighter single trunnion on the HD16.

Second, the bearings for the LT20 wheels are HUGE! I didn't measure, but
I'd say they were twice the size as on the HD16. Oh, and the wheels
seemed to be cast then machined. Very impressive looking. Turned on,
we got a penny to balance on the table for a moment. I didn't have a
nickel.

Third, the upper-wheel tension system is gigantic! Two monster steel
posts and lots of very thick cast iron. Again, easily double the mass of the
HD16, which itself is a double cast iron unit of considerable substance.

Here is a cool feature: the lower blade guides do not need to be adjusted
when you tilt (via a wheel) the table. To accomplish this little feat of
engineering they had to raise the table a couple of inches, and so the
resaw height is nipped from 20 to 16 inches, but it is very cool. The table
is also much easier to tilt to the right, a-la flipping down (not slowly
turning) bolt that otherwise sets the table at 90 degrees to the blade.

Finally, the Bulgarian beast is a full 350 kilograms (771 pounds) without
the MONSTER 6 hp Baldor motor sticking out the back! Folks, that
appears to be a tad heavier (when you count the motor) than the
heretofore weight champion MM20. In any event, it's nose to nose, weight
wise.

Only two items that I noticed (with the help of the salesman) were
indicative of its serial number, which was 0001. One is the dust shroud--
that gets in the way of freely turning the tri-spoked handle that tightens
the table at the front trunnion (The rear trunnion is tightened the same
way, with another tri-spoked handle, but there is no clearance issue). The
second is the blade guide column wants to drop when loosened. The
HD16, in contrast, stays where it's at when loosened, and waits for you to
move it up or down via the handle. These are trifles, however, on an
otherwise impressively designed and built machine. Torben is clearly
working hard in his little design room.

So, combine all this with the very cool Driftmaster fence, that worked just
as advertised and allows very consistent and minute adjustment of the
fence, and it seems to me that you have a very capable bandsaw.

There was only one problem that I could see with the Driftmaster fence
(aside from the fact that it wasn't aligned properly on the table and so it
tended to bind and get harder to slide as you moved it closer to the spine
of the saw). There is a little white, plastic screw that is used to adjust the
table-extension portion of the fence to be level with the table. That screw
pushes against, and slides along, the underside edge of the rim of the
table. Well, go look at the underside edge of any table... of course its just
rough cast with a paint job over it. It's not machined level, or smooth, and
so it's not a good, stable, surface against which this little screw can press
and slide. Further, it's plastic! On an over 800 pound monster? Obviously,
it should, and likely will be in later production runs, a steel screw with a
bearing on top that rolls along a machined underside edge of the table.
But, note this. That rough underside edge is easily thick enough to act as
a beefy surface for a good sized bearing. As I said earlier, this is one
thick, heavy, table.

So, as I was more than late to meet my wife at an after work party, I took
a quick peek at the new Jet 18X and the Steel City 18... They were
laughable. Thin, widely spoked wheels that clearly had but a fraction of
the mass of the Laguna wheels. Paper-thin, by comparison, tables with
hardly more than nubs as underside ribbing. Puny trunnions. And here is
the real kicker. The tension systems were laughably wimpy in comparison
with the Lagunas. Thin sheet metal stampings. Toy-like springs. There is
simply no way those saws could come even close to the tension that
could be applied to a blade by the Lagunas. Reminded me of the old
phrase "Made in Japan" when that meant the stuff was junk. Otherwise,
for you younger folks, the difference was akin to a F350 and a Hyundai.




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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:57 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:39 pm
Posts: 82
Location: United States
So what bandsaw do you guys have?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:34 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:38 pm
Posts: 72
Location: United States
I have a Laguna LT14. I wish I could have gone bigger, but it was already quite an accomplishment convincing my other half that this was a reasonable purchase, especially once the frieght charges from California to Maine were figured in.

Mine also was made in Bulgaria, in 2003. The heavy construction of the LT20 you decribe also applies to my LT14, but scaled down. We have a newer Delta 14" saw in the shop where I work and it doesn't come close to the Laguna (yes, I know I could have had 2 Deltas for the price of the LT14).

The LT14 has been bullet proof for me so far. I have resawed hard maple up to about 8" with no trouble. Maximum resaw capacity in factory configuration is about 8.5". Whith a small modification of the top housing (clearance for the top guide mount)I could get over 9" if I need it. Beyond that, I think a custom top guide could be made that would allow around 10" capacity.

I only had a small issue with one of ceramic pieces in the Laguna guides that I received. When I contacted Laguna they sent me a complete new guide half, no questions asked. TomS39054.5254050926


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:54 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 9:02 am
Posts: 2351
Location: Canada
First name: Bob
Last Name: Garrish
City: Toronto
State: Ontario
Country: Canada
Status: Professional
I've got the 16HD and couldn't be happier with it. The poor thing has been cutting aluminum all week (don't ask...sometimes compromises need to be made) without complaint, and I'm looking forward to resawing a load of fretboards later this month when my vacuum setup is ready.

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Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:00 am 
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Contributing Member
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:25 pm
Posts: 7207
Location: United States
I also have the LT16-HD, and love it. Plenty of power, and cuts smooth as silk. I recently put a dial caliper on a back that I slice, and found no more than a .001" variation in thickness across the whole thing. That's pretty durn good.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:00 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:33 pm
Posts: 954
Location: United States
I've got a MM16 with 16" of resaw and 5hp motor. I think it is a super saw, but I liked the Laguna as well and almost bought one.

Greg

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:48 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:24 am
Posts: 744
Location: United States
I am with Greg G. I have a MM16 but was considering the Laguna. I have been very happy with the saw but I am sure any of the top quality band saws are great.

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Brad
Avon, OH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:01 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:39 pm
Posts: 82
Location: United States
Why did you guys go the serious saw route?

What swayed you to Laguna or MM?

What kind of blades are you guys using?

Interestingly, I made the same post on SawMill Creek and WoodNet, and a
bunch of the replies have been... "Ah... gee... that's a lot of money. Out of
my league. I like Chinese junk."

You guys pipe in, and everyone says, "Yeah, I've got one of those. I love
it!"

Interesting, isn't it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:23 pm 
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Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Posts: 801
Location: United States
First name: Gene
Last Name: Zierdt
City: Sebastopol
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95472
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I have the 18" Rikon saw. I didn't have the money to buy the MM or Laguna, and the Rikon got a very good rating in a Bandsaw review. For under $1K on sale, I think it's a very good saw. I've resawn up to 8" wood so far.

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Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason- Mark Twain


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:13 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:33 pm
Posts: 954
Location: United States
I bought the saw because I knew I would be doing some resawing, and it is a joy to do it on this saw. Probably could have done well on a lesser saw, but I have no regrets about buying this one, it is a wonderful machine. I'm using a Lennox Trimaster for resawing, it has worked great for me, others seem not so happy with them though. I believe my other blades are timberwolf, they are fine as well. One thing I know is that I won't ever need another saw.


Greg

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:29 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:24 am
Posts: 744
Location: United States
[Quote=Cameron Reddy]Why did guys go the serious saw route?[/QUOTE]
Well here is my journey to getting the MM16. I knew I wanted a bandsaw that would be able to resaw hardwoods (8"-9"). My original budget was $1000 or less (just a guess really). I looked at several options....Rikon, Grizzly, and Delta with a 6" riser. They all seemed like decent choices. Once I started learning more about resawing it seemed that many recommended getting a bigger motor (2+ HP) and heavy frame for proper blade tension (on a big blade). This quickly rulled out the saws under $1000 and seemed to stear me towards Laguna, Minimax, or Bridgewood (their Italian Line).
They all seemed very expensive and I wasn't sure if they were worth the money. I talked to all three companies and Minimax did the best selling me on their company and saws. I will also say they have great customer service and were easy to work with. I am sure I would have been happy the Laguna or Bridgewood but their prices where high and I didn't seem to "connect" with their sales people (remember...when I called I was still unsure about why I needed a $2000 bandsaw...this required serious "salesmanship"). SO, after several months being sold on Minimax I ordered the MM16 because of its features and excellent reputation. I figured I will have the saw for a very long time so the upgrade for the entry level Minimax to the MM16 wasn't too much more.
As for blades, I have a 1" Lennox Trimaster (carbide), and 1/4 & 1/2 steel blades (Olson..I think). I also purchased the "Cool Blocks" for small blades which I think are not worth the money. The standard Minimax Euro guides seemed to work great and easy to adjust.
So was it worth the extra money? Hard to tell but the saw had done everything I have needed and is a joy to work with.
If you have any other questions I will be glad to answer. I did much research when I was looking but would need to refresh myself on the details.

Good luck!

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Brad
Avon, OH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:57 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:39 am
Posts: 130
Location: United States
I had a 16HD and was fairly happy with it, but I found an old 20" Davis and
Wells that I am really happy with.

Cheers,
-Dave


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:57 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:39 pm
Posts: 82
Location: United States
[QUOTE=Don Williams] I also have the LT16-HD, and love it. Plenty of
power, and cuts smooth as silk. I recently put a dial caliper on a back that I
slice, and found no more than a .001" variation in thickness across the
whole thing. That's pretty durn good.[/QUOTE]

Impressive though the saw is, I suspect there is some operator skill in there
somewhere...

Don, could you put a number on what that kind of accuracy means in terms
of dollars? If you saw 20 sets... how many might you have gotten out of a
lesser saw?



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